Curse

ensoriki · Nov 20, 2007, 11:25 PM // 23:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaserLight

The issue is that your adivce to basically every PvE Assassin that isn't a Moebius Blossom is "Stop being a noob and switch to Moebius Blossom." If that's all you're ever going to say, don't bother saying it. I'm pretty sure everyone here knows full well that if they don't want all the elitist jerks in the game to hate them, they better run Moebius Blossom or else.

As for AP...hm hm, first of all. Even in areas heavy with hex removal, I can make about eighty-five percent of my Assassin's Promise shots land. It takes...wait for it...SKILL. Ye wait until the hex-removal's already been used on other people, then lick in and before the spell recharges, kill. And when it fails, well, that's why other people in yer team carry a Hex if you can't fit a spare in. That way ye can rap off another attack stream when your attacks recharge, not just when Promise does. That would be...what's the word...teamwork? That other keyword that gets thrown around so often in this game?

Perhaps, if you were a bit more flexible than a dead tree, you would see that not every character in all of Creation has to run the exact same bar in every circumstance everywhere?

Last time I checked Assassins Promise was 1 of the better builds.
Months ago (like 5/7) there was a sins promise build shown that was a remix of the BOA sin

Sins Promise,Dark Prison, Burst of Aggression, BLS,TF,BSS,BOS,Feigned Neutrality
That was used in PVE

Thats actually what I used to defeat eternal grove >.> (DAM mission...)

LaserLight · Nov 21, 2007, 03:47 AM // 03:47

I'll post it, but I guarantee you guys won't like it.

Critical 9
Dagger 8 (9)
Deadly 12 (16)
Shadow 5

[skill]Assassin's Promise[/skill][skill]Black Spider Strike[/skill][skill]Vampiric Assault[/skill][skill]Impale[/skill][skill]Signet of Toxic Shock[/skill][skill]Dash[/skill][skill]Shadow Refuge[/skill][skill]Sunspear Rebirth Signet[/skill]

First of all, I've cleared Domain-level missions with this build, so it can work. Second of all, Shadow Refuge is spot healing and dear-God-make-the-degen-stop, not meant to do much more than try and lighten the Monk's load a bit. Plus, it costs me one point out of Dagger, which costs me one damage point from Spider. I think I can survive the loss. Took a hit with the recent punt to Impale, but with proper planning it works well for me. The extended duration on Promise with the huge DA helps when things don't go quite as fast as I like. Heh...I'm well aware nobody's gonna buy it, and yes, the skill combo is standard fair these days, but I've been Impaling since long before it was cool, and frankly. I don't give a rat if everyone on the Guru says I'm an idiot. They all already have, after all

Lourens · Nov 21, 2007, 11:01 AM // 11:01

we where talking about tomahawking sins right ?

Coloneh · Nov 22, 2007, 01:26 AM // 01:26

the discussion switched to innovative builds being crappy and experienced players suggesting good builds to less-effective players.

ensoriki · Nov 22, 2007, 01:43 AM // 01:43

The OP wants a non dagger build really so all I can suggest is

[card]Way of the assassin[/card]/[card]Siphon Strength[/card]

[card]Critical Eye[/card][card]Mystic Regeneration[/card][card]Vital Boon[/card]][card]Malicious Strike[/card][card]Chilling Victory[/card]
[card]Critical Defenses[/card]/[card]Conviction[/card]
[card]resurrection Signet[/card]/[card]Ermite's Strike[/card]

Toss Critical agility somewhere I guess too

for Pve scythe >.> not the best 1 out there I didn't put much thought into it just putting examples >.>

[card]Way of the assassin[/card]/[card]Siphon strength[/card]
[card]Hammer Bash[/card][card]Mighty Blow[/card][card]Malicious Strike[/card][card]Critical Agility[/card][card]Crude Swing[/card] [card]Dark Escape[/card] [card]Shadow Refuge[/card] [card]Resurrection Signet[/card]

Toss critical defenses/Staggering blow/ wild blow in there if you want it.
____

[card]Way of the assassin[/card]/[card]Siphon Strength[/card]
[card]Sever Artery[/card][card]Gash[/card][card]Sun and Moon Slash[/card]
[card]Critical Agility[/card] [card]Savage Slash[/card] [card]Malicious Strike[/card]

Toss whatever in blah blah >.> critical eye etc.

etc >.>

Toss in way of the master if you have it blah

These aren't great builds just some guidelines >.>
Well actually I wouldn't know if there great >.> just made em up

LaserLight · Nov 22, 2007, 06:24 AM // 06:24

Lourens: Several people in this thread asked me to post my Promise build. So I did.

Coloneh: The problem isn't experienced players trying to help newer players make bad builds into better ones. That involves sticking with the general theme of a build while improving its performance, or if a theme is just not viable ("I wanna be a Water Magic Assassin!"), tell them why it's not and, perhaps, give them an idea of where they should go instead. The problem, and what you and many others, (but mostly, from what I've seen, you) do not help new players make builds better. You guys tend to try and force everyone to play the same builds.

"Running Critbarrage? Bad. Go play Moebius Blossom instead."
"Running DA Spike? Bad. Go play Moebius Blossom instead."
"Running Critscythe? Bad. Go play Moebius Blossom instead."
"Running Axe build? Bad. Go play Moebius Blossom instead."
"Running Golden Fang string? Bad. Go play Moebius Blossom instead."
"Running a build not centered on Critical Agility, Moebius Strike, and Death Blossom? Bad. Go play Moebius Blossom instead."

Seriously dude, do you not ever get fed up with running that build? It requires no skill, forethought, or observational ability, and precious little aggro control or positional awareness or any of the other things that make Assassins fun. Just trip your Enchants, zerg a mob, and alternate two buttons till everything falls over. Yes, it's efficient, but Lucifer's bouncing balls, why is it the only build PvE Assassins are ever allowed to play? o_O

zwei2stein · Nov 22, 2007, 07:37 AM // 07:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaserLight

.why is it the only build PvE Assassins are ever allowed to play? o_O

It's build that remedies most observed assassin shotcomings:

* little frontline survivability OR hit'n'run with lots of downtime.
* spike damage not really suitable for pve. /not useless thou/
* lack of aoe
* sure-fire performance in world where people got "ninja!1!!111" and play bars that are, i.e. filled by leads.

if sins really want do do something different, sure, do it, but keep this in mind. but using different weapon does not help you out there unless its scythe.

and for gods sake, make use of sin primary: its about energy regen, not about crits damage. It should allow you continual spammage of energy based skills that warrior could never afford.

/Malaguard: for great justice makes it charge in half them time, allowing spam of 24/7/

Coloneh · Nov 22, 2007, 06:17 PM // 18:17

I dont tell everyone to play MS+DB. I tell people to play beilds that are effective in PvE. PvE builds are not effective without AoE. I dont care hom fast you can take down 1 target, if i can take down every target around me at once, i kill faster. MS+DB is usually the closes decent build that can be suggested to players, there are a few otheres, crit scythe and crit triple chop work if you want something innovative. those are fine to play. but the problem is that new players think these builds are godly and it simply needs to be pointed out to them that MS+DB serves the same purpose, only better.

Qdq Swi · Nov 22, 2007, 09:58 PM // 21:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

wtb rez sig, cyclone axe, and critical eye

res sig in pve = noob. i aint gunna tell you why for the 5th time.

Coloneh · Nov 22, 2007, 10:47 PM // 22:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qdq Swi

res sig in pve = noob. i aint gunna tell you why for the 5th time.

you havent had a reason why yet.

no rez = noob
having a team alive in a tam game = pro

ensoriki · Nov 23, 2007, 12:43 AM // 00:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

you havent had a reason why yet.

no rez = noob
having a team alive in a tam game = pro

Not dying, means your team doesn't need to rez, meaning they all just wasted a slot because you won't die.

Coloneh · Nov 23, 2007, 02:06 AM // 02:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensoriki

Not dying, means your team doesn't need to rez, meaning they all just wasted a slot because you won't die.

zwei2stein · Nov 23, 2007, 07:35 AM // 07:35

Even as best pro of pros, you are going to take casualties, because Shift happens.

Coloneh · Nov 23, 2007, 08:07 AM // 08:07

exactly.

i couldnt find a funny image for shit happens.

fireflyry · Nov 23, 2007, 08:45 AM // 08:45

I already did a thread on that topic but personally I agree with ensoriki.

The utility and effectiveness of having an 8th slot free has been vastly more advantageous overall than having a rez for the extremely rare occasions that "shift happens".

I might regret not bringing a rez once or twice every couple of months and I can live with that.I just don't view wasting a skill slot on a "just in case" one hit rez as viable, especially if theres monks around.

An 8 man team all carrying rez's is laughable overkill and a heck of a lot of utility and team effectiveness down the drain imo.

Each to their own.

fireflyry · Nov 23, 2007, 01:16 PM // 13:16

I don't understand why your talking PvP now when it's the PvE section and the original comment referred to bringing a rez in PVP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qdq Swi

res sig in pve = noob. i aint gunna tell you why for the 5th time.

PvP is totally different, thought I'd clarify that my previous comments on rez sigs are purely PvE focused.

To not bring one in PvP, other than AB, is completely illogical.

Cebe · Nov 23, 2007, 01:25 PM // 13:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qdq Swi

res sig in pve = noob. i aint gunna tell you why for the 5th time.

you havent had a reason why yet.

Here's your reason explained better than I ever could:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign from the Ele Forum

At least in Eye of the North, or in the various endgame PvE areas, player ressigs are a waste of skillslots. I think you want 3, maybe 4 hard resses on a team, some combination of Signet of Return and Death Pact Signet for the most part. DPS and Signet of Return are good enough replacements for Ressigs that you simply don't use the sigs ever; the situation where you would be compelled to use a ressig is when all the hard resses are dead, the team has likely wiped, and you're trying to pick up the pieces so you can continue.

Except that simply isn't relevant in any of the content I've done. When that many people have died in EotN it's much more expedient to simply shrine res; the 'run around and piece together a res chain' tactic is irrelevant when doing Four Horsemen or the holdout. Unless I was going to be one of the 3 hard resses (I.E., I don't have heroes to do it) then there's no point in me taking a res at all.

If I was trying to do a mission with no time sensitivity, and I was really worried about wipe recovery, I'd put a couple scrolls in inventory and be done with it. Unless you want to be a hard res anchor, take a full rack of eight skills - ressigs are completely obsolete.

[Link]

I've always considered Res Signets a bad use of a skillslot in PvE as I'm sure many people know by now.

Perhaps I was wrong to think that before the release of Nightfall, but with Death Pact Signet, Res Signet becomes a joke. If someone died from an odd spike.. a couple of people in a team carrying DPS is fine for getting them back up again quickly. If the team is being wiped over and over someone's doing something wrong.

@ OP: have you considered using Whirlwind attack as well for additional AoE-ness? Perhaps pairing yourself up with a Splinter Weapon Rit Hero, and an Order of the Vampire Necro would be fun.

Clarissa F · Nov 23, 2007, 07:00 PM // 19:00

First, there were whole threads on bringing a rez. DONT GO THERE!

On topic. There is an old phrase: Don't blame the player, blame the game. As was mentioned by others, in PvE Anet deigned to make it so AoE damage is recommended for any build. At least the cyclone axe/triple chop touches on that, though with crit skills a 41 max damage AoE scythe is better than a 28 max damage axe, even with the speed. It's the reason Moebius/DB is so wanted.

This is also a result of people not BEING ABLE TO PLAY SINS. They don't watch the area around them. They charge in like some uber anime character ready to kill everyone. They don't know what the word "kite" means, or how to make a build with running skills instead of shadow stepping, popping in and out like a DBZ cartoon, yet accomplishing nothing. At times playing a sin well is like playing a mesmer. At least with Mesmers, the involvement and the fact there is no 1-2-3-4 combo or massive AoE prevents novices from sticking with the profession.

So, for PvE, where there are so many bad sins it makes the baby Jesus cry, I recommend a build that is very hard to screw up. I would do it just so there is a chance that if I run into this sin in a pug, at least he won't be totally useless. He will cause decent AoE, and at least provide several corpses, when he dies, for the MM.